| MC |
Do
you mean that to empty the mind by eliminating
desire from it is the Tao? |
| RHEE |
Yes.
To empty the mind―that's the Tao. Then
you can see the Reality as it truly
is. |
| MC |
It
seems that the idea of the Tao has been
a major topic in our tradition all through
its history. How did our ancestors understand
its meaning? |
| RHEE |
As
I've said, and as Mr. MUN Il-p'yong
pointed out in his book Korean Culture,
the idea of Tao is so deep and lofty
that even our ancestors rarely had full
understanding of it. To see the Tao,
you must first perfect your personality
by, above all, eliminating all desire
and thus emptying your mind. In any
time and any place, few people succeed
in attaining perfect personality. This
was also true with our ancestors. |
| MC |
Is there anything like the idea of the
Tao in the Western philosophy or thought? |
| RHEE |
Plato
said in Phaedo and other dialogues that
to see the Truth the mind should be
purified first.
The term ''catharsis''
refers to that kind of purification.
He also said that the body should be
overcome. Here ''body'' means, above
all, emotion or desire. Socrates also
said that the Truth could be reached
only after death. On the other hand,
Buddhism insists that so-called ''the
concern in life and death'' should be
overcome, and only then the mind can
be emptied. That's the common aspect
of the Western and the Eastern traditions.
But the Western tradition has put emphasis
on intellectual pursuit as the major
method of purifying mind. All the Western
civilizations have been based on that
idea. Psychoanalysis is not an exception.
But according to the Eastern tradition,
intellect generates none other than
illusory ideas and deceptions. Therefore
the Eastern tradition insists that we
should go beyond intellectual thoughts. |
| MC |
It
seems to me that there is no big difference
between the West and the East in their
understandings of the deepest nature
of life, although their life styles
may appear to be different. |
| RHEE |
I
must say you are right, but with some
reserve. Some sectors of the Western
philosophy has come close to the idea
of the Tao, especially through Eckhart's
mysticism and psychoanalysis in this
century. As of today's movement, so-called
the third psychology, the humanistic
psychology the fourth psychology, or
the transpersonal psychology completely
comply with the idea of the Tao, at
least in their theories. For an example,
the humanistic psychology insists that
the highest mentality can be attained
only when self-attachment is overcome
or, in other words, when the ego is
transcended; and that kind of mentality
is in the state being one with the universe.
In this way, the concepts of the humanistic
psychology appear to be very close to
the Eastern idea of the Tao. Actually,
some psychoanalysts began to be interested
in Zen as early as 1930s and were much
influenced by it. |
| MC |
Then
would you please make a comparison between
the idea of the Tao and that of the
Western psychoanalysis? |
| RHEE |
Both
in the Eastern tradition of the Tao
and in the Western psychoanalysis, the
very first step is to pull out everything
in your mind so that it is emptied of
any emotional residue. At first, in
most cases, negative emotions so far
oppressed would be expressed. When all
of them are pulled out, then you get
into the state of so-called the 180
degree as expressed by the Buddhist
saying, "The mountain is not a
mountain, the stream in not a stream." |
